Curse

Divinus Stella · Mar 14, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I dont understand what those screens are for, ranger spike and zerg are hardly impressive and the guild i have no idea about, but if you got to rank 64 with only 8 champ points you musta farmed a serious amount of failing american AT's, either that or paid for an invite.

Danax · Mar 14, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33

It would not be dead if people would take in unexperienced PVP'ers from PVE and teached them how to properly play HA. (This is me).

Lorekeeper · Mar 14, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danax

It would not be dead if people would take in unexperienced PVP'ers from PVE and teached them how to properly play HA. (This is me).

So then PvErs with no experience in PvP will learn how bad/mind numbingly boring HA is when they face the same builds over and over and over again against enemies who target the same people over and over again that it feels like you are grinding?

Oh wait...

Kyp Jade · Mar 14, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

No one taught us how to play, no one is going to teach you how to play.

Just like I had to Figure it out so will you

Tosha · Mar 14, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

No one taught us how to play, no one is going to teach you how to play.

Just like I had to Figure it out so will you

And it is this kind of attitude that keeps repelling new players. The "You dont have a rank so you cannot join our party, but we had to learn too so we are not going to help your either" bullcrap. Gets on my nerves. And at the same time wondering why HA is dead and no one playes anymore. The veterans quit, and no one is willing to let new players in.
*takes tranquilizer*
Could go on for hours about this, but it is not doing any good anyway. Am just glad I found myself a good guild that is able to see through my low rank and help me get better, but I had to search for a long time to find them.

Kyp Jade · Mar 14, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

I could turn your attitude right back at you. You want to get straight into the good teams and start playing at a high level. Do you have any idea at the amount of fail that every high rank today went through to get there? I very much doubt it. People like you complain because you cannot play at the same level I can. Im sorry but that doesnt come overnight.

The skill progression of someone goes from

Terribad
Noob
Scrub
Ok
Good
Kyp //hey hey I get to have some ego dont i?

People like you want to jump from being scrub to good overnight, that took me all summer. All summer for me was farm some pve area for monies (I wanted ele fow) and lead HA groups. My nights certainly didnt start at the 100-200 fame per night. THey start at 10-20 fame a night, less even. Why? I was bad, just like you are now.

Theres no otherway to say it other than learn to play HA, and Im not trying to be a jerk when I say it either.

valence · Mar 14, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

My nights certainly didnt start at the 100-200 fame per night. THey start at 10-20 fame a night, less even. Why? I was bad, just like you are now.

You sure that is not the reason, the title.

Look at gvg, much easier to get better players to geust for you. They have no lose in doing so.

Lorekeeper · Mar 14, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tosha

And it is this kind of attitude that keeps repelling new players. The "You dont have a rank so you cannot join our party, but we had to learn too so we are not going to help your either" bullcrap. Gets on my nerves. And at the same time wondering why HA is dead and no one playes anymore. The veterans quit, and no one is willing to let new players in.
*takes tranquilizer*
Could go on for hours about this, but it is not doing any good anyway. Am just glad I found myself a good guild that is able to see through my low rank and help me get better, but I had to search for a long time to find them.

the message some people are trying to make is that HA is dead... it has been for a long time. Older players simply dont care anymore. That happens to many games, its only natural.

Theres no point trying to perform a post-mortum on HA stating that X is the reason why it died, especially if you have just arrived on the scene, only those who have been playing HA from the earliest times will understand the many varied factors that have led to its death... X is just one factor among many many others.

but in all honesty its just age... almost three years now.

All you players who want to start HAing right now, you have 3 choices to make.

1) embrace HA is its rigor mortis stage and grind all the fame + HoH chests you can like everyone else until Anet finally decide to switch off those servers (community is dominated by vultures)

2) shrug in disgust at the ugliness of HA in rigor mortis and go GvG or stick to PvE (community is left to the vultures)

3) ignore the death of HA in the eyes of the older players and carve a new era of HA with the new ones, just like the older HA players did when they first started Tombing. (from the ashes of the old rises the new)

what alot of people seem to want is

4) turn back the clock to HA in its early or middle ages to a time where people cared and raw talent was a desired resource by everyone.

Options 1), 2) are ones most of the older players have adopted. Option 3) is open to newer players but is a huge task for them, so it seems they prefer the easier option 1).

option 4) is impossible.

That is the state of HA.

Golden Rice · Mar 15, 2008, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danax

It would not be dead if people would take in unexperienced PVP'ers from PVE and teached them how to properly play HA. (This is me).

time for PvE guilds to make a switch to PvP imo , plenty of sites with PvP builds.

advice: dont HA one day and rage cause you get owned, noone starts off perfect

Lykan · Mar 15, 2008, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

I could turn your attitude right back at you. You want to get straight into the good teams and start playing at a high level. Do you have any idea at the amount of fail that every high rank today went through to get there? I very much doubt it. People like you complain because you cannot play at the same level I can. Im sorry but that doesnt come overnight.

The skill progression of someone goes from

Terribad
Noob
Scrub
Ok
Good
Kyp //hey hey I get to have some ego dont i?

People like you want to jump from being scrub to good overnight, that took me all summer. All summer for me was farm some pve area for monies (I wanted ele fow) and lead HA groups. My nights certainly didnt start at the 100-200 fame per night. THey start at 10-20 fame a night, less even. Why? I was bad, just like you are now.

Theres no otherway to say it other than learn to play HA, and Im not trying to be a jerk when I say it either.

QFT

I dont know why people dont understand, PvP is like a sport, you dont get to play in the big leagues straight away.

"Hmm I want to play American Football but i dont have any experience what shall i do?
I know I'll call the Miami Dolphins im sure they will let me play for them anyway.
Omg they wont let me in the team, they suck so much they are such elitist ********** this just is not fair someone call the NFL, im going to write to them and call them names and complain all day instead of trying to learn myself."

valence · Mar 15, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

[gw] esport != sport.

HA has an extreme high entry barrier, denying the existence of that is stupid. GW PvP is in general not easy to 'master'.

The only and solely reason why good "ha'ers" are not willing to group with lower ranked, is that their fame gain rate might go lower. I do not blame people for that, but saying that they are on their own doesn't compute either.

The only attemp to lower the entry barrier is imo AB, which is an entire different way of pvp'ing then any other area and doesnt work out that well.

PS: if you want to play football you would go to a local football club or something. Now compare the local football club with something in gw. RA?

edit: espot does in some cases come very close to sport, edited the [gw]

MasterSasori · Mar 15, 2008, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Wait a minute. With all its title-grind and repetitive builds and strategies, HA is sounding more and more like something awfully familiar....

PvE anyone?

hurdlebeast · Mar 15, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

so basically, you can't rank up and learn anything unless you play on a good team, and you can't play on a good team unless you have a good rank?

kinda recursive, yeah, that will kill HA right there. new pvper's don't stand a chance. The elitist attitude of some PvP groups is why i only do the large scale PvP's, like AB. otherwise it's not fun unless you are "uber1337" with the rank to prove it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lykan

QFT

I dont know why people dont understand, PvP is like a sport, you dont get to play in the big leagues straight away.

"Hmm I want to play American Football but i dont have any experience what shall i do?
I know I'll call the Miami Dolphins im sure they will let me play for them anyway.
Omg they wont let me in the team, they suck so much they are such elitist ********** this just is not fair someone call the NFL, im going to write to them and call them names and complain all day instead of trying to learn myself."

actually, the dolphins might let you play...might want to pick a different football team for comparison. Like the Atlanta Falcons, for example....

[/end sarcasm]

blood seeker · Mar 15, 2008, 08:28 AM // 08:28

start you're one groups, most unranked players are just lazy, they just wanna lift on the succes of high ranked players. I know when i had a low rank it took me ages to reach r3 and i got half of my fame back then by forming my own parties or playing with guildies, not by complaining to high ranked players (r6) that they should take me.

Takida · Mar 15, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurdlebeast

so basically, you can't rank up and learn anything unless you play on a good team, and you can't play on a good team unless you have a good rank?

kinda recursive, yeah, that will kill HA right there. new pvper's don't stand a chance. The elitist attitude of some PvP groups is why i only do the large scale PvP's, like AB. otherwise it's not fun unless you are "uber1337" with the rank to prove it.

Do you think ppl started with rank 10+ ?
every1 had the same problems that u had, but instead of whining on threads we were making own groups, joining randomway w/e.

stop whining and play

Killed u man · Mar 15, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by valence

HA has an extreme high entry barrier, denying the existence of that is stupid. GW PvP is in general not easy to 'master'.

The only and solely reason why good "ha'ers" are not willing to group with lower ranked, is that their fame gain rate might go lower. I do not blame people for that, but saying that they are on their own doesn't compute either.

The only attemp to lower the entry barrier is imo AB, which is an entire different way of pvp'ing then any other area and doesnt work out that well.

PS: if you want to play football you would go to a local football club or something. Now compare the local football club with something in gw. RA?

HA doesn't have a high entry barrier. You can go to HA ID1, invite random people and off you go. You can't even do that in football...
I myself don't even play for fame no more, purely for fun. (Gues what, it's a game)

There isn't many "good" HA'ers left.
A "Good" PvP'er imo needs to have 4 things:
-> Know EVERY SKILL, EVERY MAP, EVERY BUILD, so that no mater what you're always prepared.
-> Can call a group on it's own. (Like Kyp said, this is needed to win Cap Points in a non-headless-chicken way.) This is the biggest problem with the new people. They REFUSE to call. Not because to can't, but because they expect someone else to do the dirty work for them...
-> Has experience with EVERY profession in any build. A person who NEVER played thumper/IWAY warrior doesn't have any rights to call the build lame. If you NEVER tried drugs, who are you to judge they are bad? Same goes in PvP/HA: If you never tried a degenerative build, it would be inappropriate to start calling these builds lame...
-> Patience/eagerness to keep learning: This is also something that new people lack. (And ALOT of the current R9+ Thump Players). I am PUG'ing EVERY day in HA with "Fresh" builds. HA has 4 districts ever since the last update, yet I can't find anyone. Why is that? Because people refuse to play ANY other build than the one they played for their intire GW carreer, untill it gets nerfed. Even then, they look for something similar to replace it, just so they won't have to learn a new type of play. Perfect example: R/D replaced the thumper.

As long as degenerative button-bash builds exist, HA will never know active times again. Anet has 3 options:
- Let it die out, the way it is going now. (The last skill updates were nice, but still primary for GvG)
- Promote "more" gimmick builds. If there is 10+ viable gimmick builds (As in the "golden" ages of tombs), you can actually run different "gimmick" bars. Atleast the experience people have will reach further than the ranger button-bash fest it is now.
- Keep balancing (Mainly nerfing) HA. Start with hitting the ANY degenerative build. HA can be fixed with hitting no more than 40 skills tops...

Elitism didn't kill HA, PvE farmers did...

And as final a "small" list of examples of WHAT exactly should be nerfed:

- N/Rt Healers
- Signet of Sorrow
- Dual Shot/Forked Arrow (Not the skill themselves, but the endless buffs they got from Brutal + Para + Cracked armor)
- Paragons: SoR/DA, Spear Damage should compare to that of a sword, mayby even less.
- Expertise + Non-Ranger skills.
- Scythe Damage needs to get reduced OR remove the AoE.
- A/D's need a hit. Either do this by lower crit damage or "nerfing" Critical Strikes.
- "Make Haste" and "Fallback": Ends if target ally becomes target of a spell. Promotes "active shutdown on mesmer on relic runs.
- Buff Windborne Speed
- Assa Caster still need a small hit.
- Shattering Assault sins will become more popular after N/Rt nerf. Common sense tells us a small nerf here as well wouldn't do us bad.
- Reduce overal "Spike damage" on skills. I have a nice thread in HA-builds with all kinds of imba spikes I made. These need to be nerfed, otherwise it will become a pure spike meta.
- Nerf channeling to nearby range, mayby even adjecent. Promotes "active" movement on the monks as well as non-brainless spamming skills in HoH, whilst channel-tanking.
- Promote "active" e-management: OoB, Mantra of Recall, Pdrain, Leech Sig. Some of these aren't that active (OoB/Recall), but atleast it's better than the channeling "trigger and forget" monks.
- HoH objectives suck, I gues I have QQ'ed enough about it in different thread to prove me right on this one

I can keep on going on this list, but seeing Anet doesn't care about HA, there is no point. (I'll admit, I did get dragged into this post a bit

Then again, I'm still very eager to see HA getting fixed)

valence · Mar 15, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

HA doesn't have a high entry barrier. You can go to HA ID1, invite random people and off you go. You can't even do that in football...
I myself don't even play for fame no more, purely for fun. (Gues what, it's a game)

Except if you play football you wont get imba match ups, divisions and stuff. GW has been lacking that forever and creates an high entry barrier, not just for HA, for pvp in general. Weird enough the only format that tries to balance it is GvG and the later added HB. Look at the rawr cup who is trying to support lower ranked guilds, why is that not implemented in AT's (with ofcourse adjusted lower rewards)

You won't hear me saying that the title alone kills it, tho it is certainly one of the reasons. PvP is lacking a stream of new people, and the support of casual play in gvg is epic low, that is killing gw. New players get no support, knowing the people in gw is 50% to get to the top.

No one cares if good old players leave, if new players can replace them. A lot of those new players don't get beyond RA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I myself don't even play for fame no more, purely for fun. (Gues what, it's a game)

If people would take your vision, a lot of problems are solved. Don't get me wrong, gimmicks should be banished and ruins the fun, but a dieing ha is moreover a lack of new players. That counts for every area of pvp.

lacasner · Mar 15, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

I think maybe 6vs6 HA will spice it up a bit again, eh? After all, when your at the bottom there is no where to go but up. Plus, people do complain forming a party is long and tedious...

hurdlebeast · Mar 15, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takida

Do you think ppl started with rank 10+ ?
every1 had the same problems that u had, but instead of whining on threads we were making own groups, joining randomway w/e.

stop whining and play

are you saying it was fun having it be so hard to join a decent group? cuz if you are, then i stand corrected, the pvp'ers can be elitists and pull rank on anyone.

I'm just saying that maybe, if you want varied, dynamic, fun HA battles, mebbe you could get more people involved by being nice to the newbies, not saying "I had to go through it, and I hated it, so why shouldn't you go through it too?"

LifesRestorer · Mar 15, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

ya know, you're complaining about getting into ranked groups ect, when really you dont ahve a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing clue who wins halls.

anyone who knows anything will see that the most successful HA teams are those who play with each other on a regular basis: GUILD TEAMS

now, I hope I dont sound stupid in saying this, but instead of complaining you cant get into some failure of a r10 shitway pug, which will fail more if you join it, how about you start where every other successful HA team has started: within the domains of friends lists and their own guilds.

so for the billionth time, quit bitchin, start playing